ESC Insight: The Eurovision Song Contest Podcast

Eurovision Chat Over Coffee, with Eurovision Reference Group Chair Bakel Walden

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Episode notes

As the Eurovision Song Contest moves forward and Basel 2025 comes into view, the events leading up to, during, and after the Song Contest’s third visit to Malmö continue to echo around the community.

Bakel Walden, the current chair of the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group, returns to the ESC Insight podcast and joins Ewan Spence to talk about the state of the Contest as the momentum builds for another season.

They talk about several topics, including…

…Noa Kirel singing on the Eurovision stage under the Israeli flag, against the backdrop of the horrific events of October 7th, the political nature of KAN’s first submission and the subsequent changes to arrive at ‘Unicorn‘.
…the decision-making process in Malmö leading to the disqualification of Dutch broadcaster AVROTROS and singer Joost Klein.
…the pressure and vitriol on social media’s coverage of the Song Contest.
…the steps being taken to create safe spaces for artists, delegations, staff, and the community at future Contests.
…and the Reference Group’s involvement in Host City selections.

Selected Quotes From The Interview

On KAN’s Participation:

“It was very simple. They [KAN] are a member of EBU, it has been expressed quite a lot of times by the EBU that as a member, as long as you play by the rules, you are eligible to participate and that was the case of KAN, that they are eligible to participate. There were obviously different opinions in social media, we’ve heard from delegations, etc. but at the end of the day, there was not one single member of the EBU who expressed any official resentment.”

On Russia’s exclusion in 2022, and Israel’s inclusion in 2024:

“There’s a clear difference between a state broadcaster that is just following propaganda, which is not actually playing by the rules and values of the EBU.

“KAN itself has been in a difficult situation, also with the Israeli government. There is a different situation in how they position themselves, but I absolutely acknowledge that me and the Reference Group have been very much aware that the difference hasn’t been clear and hasn’t been also accepted by a lot of people; and I think this is also one of the learnings for the EBU and probably also the Reference Group, that this has not been well enough communicated, not openly, transparent [and not] early enough.”

On the process to disqualify Joost Klein:

“The EBU is proposing a disqualification, and the Reference Group approves it or doesn’t… and what we did is, of course, have a discussion, all of us; meaning the EBU Core Team, the Executive Supervisor, the Media Director, and myself. And we also discussed this then with the Executive Committee- the Executive Board—which I mentioned before, the highest committee of the EBU, the Expo—who approved this. I personally informed the Reference Group so everyone was involved, everyone had a say.”

Safe Spaces In Basel

“We need to have areas where artists can retreat to. Areas you know, where you can be and where no-one is allowed to take out a camera. I mean, if I’m at a football match and the World Cup, I’m not allowed to go into the locker room of the teams, and I think the Eurovision Song Contest has been quite open with that, and it’s nice to be as open with social media content, but it’s been probably going too far. So there will be, I think, areas or maybe also time periods when we say look, now it’s about the artist and about their well-being and they also can disconnect and no one is, you know, allowed to disturb.”

Eurovision Chat Over Coffee, with Eurovision Reference Group Chair Bakel Walden

Ewan Spence sits down with Eurovision Reference Group chairman Bakel Walden to look forward to Basel 2025 and look back at Malmö 2024 and one of the most controversial seasons in the Contest’s long and storied history.

Discover more about the Eurovision Song Contest and follow its journey to Basel by listening to the ESC Insight podcasts. You’ll find the show on iTunes, Google Podcasts, and Spotify. A direct RSS feed is available. We also have a regular email newsletter, which you can sign up for here.

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