Secrets And Spies: a podcast about Espionage, Terrorism & GeoPolitics

The U.S. has just carried out its most significant strikes on Iran in 45 years. President Trump declared victory, but his own intelligence agencies aren’t so sure. This week, Matt is joined by The Atlantic’s Shane Harris to unpack what we actually know about the strikes’ effectiveness, the fractured intel picture behind them, and how DNI Tulsi Gabbard has navigated the fallout. They discuss her eroding influence, the internal backlash to her public testimony, and what her tenure reveals about the growing politicization of the intelligence community—and the risks when presidents try to shape intel to match their narrative.

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Reporting discussed in the episode

"Tulsi Gabbard Chooses Loyalty to Trump" by Isaac Stanley-Becker & Shane Harris | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/tulsi-gabbard-trump-iran/683323/

"Thank You for Your Attention to This Matter!" by Missy Ryan, Shane Harris, Isaac Stanley-Becker & Jonathan Lemire | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/israel-iran-trump-truth-social/683306/

"The True Impact of Trump’s Strike on Iran" by Missy Ryan, Jonathan Lemire, Ashley Parker, Isaac Stanley-Becker & Shane Harris | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/iran-nuclear-damage-trump/683294/


"Trump Changed. The Intelligence Didn’t." by Shane Harris | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/trump-changed-the-intelligence-didnt/683289/


"Trump’s Two-Week Window for Diplomacy Was a Smoke Screen" by Michael Scherer, Missy Ryan, Isaac Stanley-Becker, Shane Harris & Jonathan Lemire | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/trump-israel-iran-bomb/683275/


"How Israel Executed Its Surprise Assault on Iran" by Isaac Stanley-Becker and Shane Harris | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/how-israel-surprised-iran/683184/


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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by The White House & Vahid Salemi/AP


Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.